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While it was not the only company to sit this year’s out–Activision also sat out–there was no absence at E3 2019more significant than that of Sony. With no PlayStation press conference or show floor booth, it was a much different sort of show. Many would argue it was a worse one without them there–and among those saying as much as is Xbox boss Phil Spencer, who says E3 is just not the same without Sony and Activision, and he wants them return in the future.

Appearing on GameSpot sister site Giant Bomb’s livestream at E3, Spencer spoke about the ongoing relevance of E3, and he suggested that the show’s profile is hurt by Sony and Activision not being there. “I wish Sony was here,” Spencer said. “E3 is not as good when they’re not here,” Spencer said about Sony and Activision dropping out of the big annual gaming show.

E3 remains relevant and important to the gaming world, Spencer said. It’s a time in the year when the whole world is watching gaming, and that’s very important today when the industry is coming under criticism and judgment. One recent threat, Spencer said, was the World Health Organization’s designation of Gaming Disorder as a recognized disease.

He said E3 is an important time of year to show the world that gaming is not just kids in a basement. And without juggernauts like Sony and Activision, E3 could take a hit in terms of prominence, Spencer said.